So we moved across the country a couple of years ago, and suddenly my high energy child who dislikes having to do what they are told by authority figures is in a public school where they embrace normal child behavior and actually help kids make better choices rather than using it as a euphemism for punishment. In kindergarten they had in school suspension multiple times and came home with brightly colored “bad behavior” slips on a weekly basis and definitely adopted the identity of being the naughty kid. I just want to say there are good and bad ways to encourage appropriate behavior and I really regret not having the confidence to push back on the bullshit at our old school. Also, I was in a meeting recently to figure out why our kid has trouble listening to instructions, and the school psychologist and speech therapist both said “this is such a great kid” - and I thought how amazing it is to be in a place where a kid can have behavioral issues and that is not seen as precluding them being a great kid. (My kid did punch someone earlier in the year, and they dealt with it at school and worked it out between the kids, and again, it did not make them a bad kid.)
I’m so glad you saw first hand there is another way. I really related to the second witch in that I was a good girl growing up and my mom def had a “the teacher is [almost] always right.” Esp after COVID I never wanted to be a difficult parent with a difficult kid. But I have been learning as I go that the school is not necessarily my boss and I can’t yell my kid into fitting a certain mold.
Woof, I needed that read this particular morning. I literally walked out of my job “sick” yesterday because I got an email my kid was having a rough day. Not even to pick him up, just because it gives ME such big feels. And we are in a pretty good, well supported environment but I still break a little every time I get an email or call. Solidarity, y’all.
I also needed to hear this even though my first grader daughter is generally a rule following wanna be teacher (which is an issue we are working on because most 6yos do not want a shift supervisor for playtime, especially not a peer). Last week we got our first ever bright behavior note and it was shocking 1) because it seemed kind of intentionally shaming and 2) because it was for pointing her middle finger at another kid in class which I was like 99% sure she had literally zero knowledge or context for it being a bad thing and the note ALSO had no context!!! This meant I got to ask the unreliable 6yo narrator what happened. It sounds like another child at her table was asking the rest of the table which finger was the middle one and my uber helping teacher wannabe kid was all “it’s this one see!!!” Because she is a functionally only child who was 3 at the start of the pandemic and has literally never exposed to this symbol because she’s barely been exposed to people outside her family!! Immediately after being what she thought was helpful, she was sent (with the other kid) into the hallway which had already been established in her mind as for bad kids!! Then the teacher didn’t really explain anything (i am guessing because she didn’t want to be teaching little kids about flipping people off but also then that means she knew it was innocent exploration), so my daughter thought she was in big trouble and didn’t know why. We tried to be chill about it home and to explain the symbolism of the middle finger without encouraging her to use it. I have no idea if that worked. I was able to message the other kid’s mom and it seemed like that 1st grader had seen older kids flip people off on the playground and was also a very sheltered 1st grader who was just trying to figure out what was going on. Not great. All around not great.
We pulled our kids out of our aftercare program last year after they suspended my then-1st grader. He'd had a series of what I thought were minor issues, then suddenly they were like "three day suspension!" I was so mad about the communication, and also--if you're suspending a 6 year old, you have a supervision problem as much as a kid problem. That's a solution that only works because my husband works from home, and I'm home pretty often, and because we're fine with them watching too much tv--but at least they're being poorly supervised at home for free now!
"you have a supervision problem as much as a kid problem."
AMEN.
We haven't yet dealt with any kind of suspensions, but my younger daughter's daycare would message us IRT every time she bit someone, which for a while was several times a week.
She is less than two years old.
It was always "Vivi and a friend were in the kitchen area and both wanted the same toy and she bit her friend."
This wasn't happening with anywhere near the frequency at home. When I asked what exactly they wanted us to do about it (ground her? she's a BABY) they sort of shrugged. When I asked if they were putting her in time-out for biting, I was told no, because time out was not "developmentally appropriate" for an under-two kid.
Asked the pediatrician and she was "Biting at daycare in an under-two kid isn't a discipline issue, it's an adult supervision issue, and it will naturally ease off when she gets more words and more teeth."
(Lo and behold, it eased WAY off when she 1. got better at speaking, 2. got almost all her teeth, 3. moved to a new room where the teachers pay more attention to the kids.)
Oh, this reminds me of the time the daycare told me my son had hit another baby - unusual for him - and I was like, “did you give him a snack??” And they were shocked (and highly entertained, thank goodness) that a 10mo would get hangry, and started making sure he had more snacks.
Lololol I know! It was more of a, “He’s never done this before, what’s the deal?” kind of thing. Regardless, how much could be alleviated by timely application of snacks? For everyone!
yes AND I'm obviously not pro-biting, but when they're so small, they just don't have a lot of other resources for managing problems! (both of my kids were occasional biters and basically outgrew it--and I was often a little relieved when a report came home that they'd been the bite-ee.)
with the story that I told, I was like, okay, this is a pattern, what are you doing proactively to keep it from repeating, and the answer was a shrug. we also had a lot of talks about how the one who hits second is always going to get caught--even if you're not the one who started it, the response is going to be what gets an adult's attention!
Our daycare called as my kid was the bite-ee the other day, and he’s only a toddler, but he did snatch the biters toy first. I’m not pro-biting, but do I think the biter is a monster? Nope! Do i think any kind of physical punishment from adults is justified? Nope! Do i think my kid might have learned something useful from another kid reacting to his behaviour? Probably!
Like, unless it broke the skin or you have reason to think my kid has some sort of developmental issue that needs to be checked out (pediatrician says no, this is an entirely normal toddler)...this is kind of a "you" problem to deal with, daycare?
This is WELL within the realm of normal toddler behavior, and you're just going to have to figure out how to lessen the opportunities and triggers for biting.
If she's going on four and still biting people regularly, then I'm going to be concerned, but she won't even be two til June.
I think this is important to remember! Every after-care program I have worked in or witnessed (as a teacher) is understaffed by people who make $13/ hour, work 2-3 other jobs, and have little to no formal training in child development. They can be doing the best with the tools they have and that can also not be enough for some, or many, children.
This gave me all the feels. My son was recently diagnosed with epilepsy and the institutional response has been... shocking.
This idea that we can manage, manipulate and control tiny people into being what society deems appropriate... it feels really dangerous to me.
I wish ‘school’ wasn’t the only option of additional childcare available to our growing children. School as we understand it. Turning kids into cogs in an educational machine, building them for compliance and competency... designed to serve the most beings as efficiently as possible. Act right or gtfo?! Who says what is right?! Harming others is not right, but when we’re talking about 6 year olds... C’Mon?!?
It’s dehumanizing. It’s failing our communities on many levels. Moms are so busy doing EVERYTHING we’ve not gotten in there and reformed the way we ‘train’ our young for generations.
I know. And there is so much guilt on us and to spill on the other kids. I can only laugh now at my attempts to tell my son when he was in kindergarten that he is wasting his classmates' time when he acts up. Like kindergarteners' time is so valuable. I try really hard not to think about how depressing it was that during COVID instead of him sitting on the floor rolling around with his friends he had to sit at a desk, keep his mask on, not touch anyone or else it's instant death.
Wishing you well Devin. I have a friend whose daughter got an epilepsy diagnosis a few years ago and they are all doing well now but it was very emotional and scary to get it all tested and figure out the medication and then the effects from the medication, etc.
I feel this! This is where my head goes. I wish there were more options. When one of the Witches in the pieces said, "Surrender. This is the situation. It’s not optimal," I felt that in my bones.
Oof. I feel this so much. And it is SO HARD to find those magical “alternative” programs with a low student teacher ratio and neurodivergence tolerance but still enough learning that your bright, but special needs kid won’t get bored and check out. Even when you are SO PRIVILEGED and can afford to pay more than half the country makes in a year just to send your kid to Kindergarten. If I can’t handle dealing with this shit, it is literally ducking impossible for most parents. I spend equal time angry at the system on my kid’s behalf and angrier at the system on behalf of all the other kids who are being more screwed.
And don’t get me started on how we’ve decided primary school is “work” rather than a place to learn to be humans and make friends and practice manners and eh if there’s time learn the names of the states or some basic arithmetic or whatever. And we’re STILL making this choice when we have a cohort of kids who were trapped inside for a year or more. The curriculum just makes it so hard for even NT kids without any good reason. The world will not end if Timmy doesn’t get to fractions until middle school. The world might end if Timmy never figures out how to play tag.
this is so true kate! aaaaaand sometimes a kid can actually do well in a more "typical" setting, it just comes down to all of these details like teacher style, school beliefs about inclusion, etc. my son's low-performing, normal-sauce public school does a GREAT job with NT kids, but they dont advertise it, it's kind of just in the air. hard to know where those places are as a parent but it can happen....
I really needed this thread, so thank you Claire and OP. My 6yo has been suspended twice from before and after care for hitting, and we were pushed out of our beloved daycare over my ND 4yo. He was excluded 5 times for biting so hard he broke skin. 3 of those were in 1 week, with the 3rd culminating in him looking the new director in the eye and saying “If I bite my friends hard enough I get to go home.” Congratulations, that’s what you taught my kid. My kid who wants nothing more than to stay home because he believes I spend my days in my PJs on the couch watching TV and eating cereal. (In fairness, they’re yoga pants in my makeshift office-but there is legitimate careering going on all day.). I desperately wanted to tell the director “Honey, YOU don’t like me. My kid would like nothing better than to spend the day on the couch with me. So please stop escalating matters until he gets his wish or he will never make it through another day!” But I bit my tongue because we did not want to be kicked out. I did repeatedly ask them for guidance on how to reinforce the matter at home because “at 3, it’s not appropriate to punish a child for hours at a time, but once the immediate consequences are over, he really enjoys being home.” That was met with a “not my problem” stare. The school exclusions at this age read to me as punishment for the parents. They started treating me like I ended drop off in the morning by stomping on my kid’s foot and telling him to choose his victim wisely. The vibe was “Will you please DO something about your child?!” As though I was withholding some magical fix for shits and giggles. I hated to give them the satisfaction of pushing us out to make way for an “easier” kid, but my kid was absolutely internalizing the “I’m bad” message. We got enormously lucky that we found a daycare where the 4 year old room teacher had a background with sensory processing ND kids (mine is a seeker) and the school was new enough to have small class sizes. Someone with the soft skill set of understanding co-regulation and spotting triggers early to de-escalate was magical. But the second she is out sick, we get the call to come collect him. Every professional who has seen him has said he really needs a small class size to thrive, but where is this mythical 10-15 kid kindergarten class? We are enormously lucky that we are already qualified for an IEP for next year, but I’m not entirely certain how that will work. I don’t think he needs to be in a separate classroom, but I also think there will be incidents in a class with 20 kids (State max and the standard around here) of which he will be the youngest. I’d red shirt him, but without our unicorn teacher, I just know it will be another year of constant calls to collect him. I feel like we’ve made all this diagnostic progress, but the schools have not caught up with what to actually DO with these kids, and daycare is even less equipped and with none of the legal protections. Ok. Deep breath. That has been swirling in my brain for a year. Thank you for the forum to let that out.
Hi Shannon. I love you for this: "stomping on my kid’s foot and telling him to choose his victim wisely." I know very well the "Please explain to Timmy that we don't XYZ in class" as if you are just not explaining it right. And it takes so much time to figure this out all over and over again, it's such a bummer to realize our kids are the lucky ones in that their parents have the time and resources to spend trying to figure this out and help their kids. Because it doesn't feel 'lucky'!
this is such an important topic! maybe i missed it but just want parents to know that when your kid does have an IEP, there are tons of legal hoops the school has to go through if they decided they want to suspend or expel your kid. basically, if the behavior is related to your child's disability (which you could def make a case for here), they arent allowed to suspend or expel. it's very protective. one more reason to make it legal :)
Mar 23, 2023·edited Mar 23, 2023Liked by Claire Zulkey
Oh goodness - I have my own stories with ADHD kid and school but what this is mostly reminding me of is my friend who has to pick her 3yo up from daycare multiple times a week because they have an enforced “quiet time” for TWO HOURS and basically anyone who isn’t napping has to play SILENTLY for TWO HOURS. And because my friend’s child is unable to do this they send her home. This blows my mind. My own preschooler’s daycare thankfully has a separate nap room and non-napping kids can play quietly in the next room but it’s an old house so for the half dozen kids who CAN’T just “play quietly” they are taken outside to yell and run free! Why do we expect so much of kids - and such little kids, 3? 5? 6? 10? We need to expect more of adults. Are these educators, care providers, administrators not trained?? Are there no alternatives to punitive carceral punishments that only make things worse!?! I’m obviously triggered so will leave things there. I’m just REALLY over school and flailing around for reasons not to send my second kid - but also I can’t homeschool soooo…
My daughter started kindergarten on the young side of her year, and really struggled for probably the first half of last year with focus in class. One day I got a message from her teacher that she had been found in the bathroom with another girl playing during class time, and the word ‘inappropriate’ was used. Apparently it wasn’t that they had been showing each other private parts or anything, just that she disrupted class as another kid had to be sent to find her. Her teacher then decided to tell me she was concerned that she was using toilet breaks as an excuse when she didn’t want to do ‘hard’ work (I would have liked to know that earlier!) I spoke to my daughter with the angle of ‘its not safe if the teacher doesn’t know where you are, and its important to be in class to learn’ but secretly my huband and I were just like, eh, what grown up hasn’t hid in the bathroom on a really bad day at work?
Speaking as the parent of 2 young adults, I just want to say how much I appreciate the statement about the connection between school success and adult success. I wish I had heard that much earlier, too! I’d add one thing: “adult success” is vast and varied. For some, it looks like a traditional career and relationship path on a relatively traditional timeline. But for others, it looks very different. Furthermore, every successful adult has periods of difficulty, uncertainty, and struggle. I am learning to relax a bit about the specifics for my kids, and for myself.
Yes, I think about this a lot. What "success" means and how it can't protect you from disaster or from depression and what one might sacrifice along the way in order to make way for 'success.' Thank you!
This was like a godsend today. Last night I got the most passive-aggressive letter sent home from my five year old's pre-K teacher and I was flipping out. It's like a balm to read all this. My therapist has told me a couple of times that thing that Katie Malinski said. I hope it's true! Because some of the other adults in his life are getting MAJOR SIDE-EYE FROM ME. s
Mar 25, 2023·edited Mar 25, 2023Liked by Claire Zulkey
Unfortunately, regular school in general is not the best place for neurodivergent kids.
To all those people who said that their SCHOOL based evaluation deemed their kids as "fine", get an independent second opinion. We went through the school district and was denied services because my kid passed all the test. An independent neuropsychology evaluation told us otherwise.
We are lucky, the school that my kid is in has been overall a good fit. The teachers so far have taken her issues seriously (it also helped that they all had special ed training.) Now that she is getting older, we are reevaluating school placement and looking at alternative programs. As of now we are taking a wait and see approach now that middle school is on the horizon and classes are longer in self-contained. Unfortunately, this is all private school, but hell, we don't need to go on vacation anyways.
School districts are working to be more inclusive, but there is no money for it, which make everything worse for everyone. Nevertheless, advocate, advocate, advocate. It's exhausting, but the only way that people will pay attention.
So we moved across the country a couple of years ago, and suddenly my high energy child who dislikes having to do what they are told by authority figures is in a public school where they embrace normal child behavior and actually help kids make better choices rather than using it as a euphemism for punishment. In kindergarten they had in school suspension multiple times and came home with brightly colored “bad behavior” slips on a weekly basis and definitely adopted the identity of being the naughty kid. I just want to say there are good and bad ways to encourage appropriate behavior and I really regret not having the confidence to push back on the bullshit at our old school. Also, I was in a meeting recently to figure out why our kid has trouble listening to instructions, and the school psychologist and speech therapist both said “this is such a great kid” - and I thought how amazing it is to be in a place where a kid can have behavioral issues and that is not seen as precluding them being a great kid. (My kid did punch someone earlier in the year, and they dealt with it at school and worked it out between the kids, and again, it did not make them a bad kid.)
I’m so glad you saw first hand there is another way. I really related to the second witch in that I was a good girl growing up and my mom def had a “the teacher is [almost] always right.” Esp after COVID I never wanted to be a difficult parent with a difficult kid. But I have been learning as I go that the school is not necessarily my boss and I can’t yell my kid into fitting a certain mold.
Woof, I needed that read this particular morning. I literally walked out of my job “sick” yesterday because I got an email my kid was having a rough day. Not even to pick him up, just because it gives ME such big feels. And we are in a pretty good, well supported environment but I still break a little every time I get an email or call. Solidarity, y’all.
You too Sophie. It is just such a day-spiker on so many levels and causes such a cascade of worries. I hope today is a li’l better.
I also needed to hear this even though my first grader daughter is generally a rule following wanna be teacher (which is an issue we are working on because most 6yos do not want a shift supervisor for playtime, especially not a peer). Last week we got our first ever bright behavior note and it was shocking 1) because it seemed kind of intentionally shaming and 2) because it was for pointing her middle finger at another kid in class which I was like 99% sure she had literally zero knowledge or context for it being a bad thing and the note ALSO had no context!!! This meant I got to ask the unreliable 6yo narrator what happened. It sounds like another child at her table was asking the rest of the table which finger was the middle one and my uber helping teacher wannabe kid was all “it’s this one see!!!” Because she is a functionally only child who was 3 at the start of the pandemic and has literally never exposed to this symbol because she’s barely been exposed to people outside her family!! Immediately after being what she thought was helpful, she was sent (with the other kid) into the hallway which had already been established in her mind as for bad kids!! Then the teacher didn’t really explain anything (i am guessing because she didn’t want to be teaching little kids about flipping people off but also then that means she knew it was innocent exploration), so my daughter thought she was in big trouble and didn’t know why. We tried to be chill about it home and to explain the symbolism of the middle finger without encouraging her to use it. I have no idea if that worked. I was able to message the other kid’s mom and it seemed like that 1st grader had seen older kids flip people off on the playground and was also a very sheltered 1st grader who was just trying to figure out what was going on. Not great. All around not great.
We pulled our kids out of our aftercare program last year after they suspended my then-1st grader. He'd had a series of what I thought were minor issues, then suddenly they were like "three day suspension!" I was so mad about the communication, and also--if you're suspending a 6 year old, you have a supervision problem as much as a kid problem. That's a solution that only works because my husband works from home, and I'm home pretty often, and because we're fine with them watching too much tv--but at least they're being poorly supervised at home for free now!
"you have a supervision problem as much as a kid problem."
AMEN.
We haven't yet dealt with any kind of suspensions, but my younger daughter's daycare would message us IRT every time she bit someone, which for a while was several times a week.
She is less than two years old.
It was always "Vivi and a friend were in the kitchen area and both wanted the same toy and she bit her friend."
This wasn't happening with anywhere near the frequency at home. When I asked what exactly they wanted us to do about it (ground her? she's a BABY) they sort of shrugged. When I asked if they were putting her in time-out for biting, I was told no, because time out was not "developmentally appropriate" for an under-two kid.
Asked the pediatrician and she was "Biting at daycare in an under-two kid isn't a discipline issue, it's an adult supervision issue, and it will naturally ease off when she gets more words and more teeth."
(Lo and behold, it eased WAY off when she 1. got better at speaking, 2. got almost all her teeth, 3. moved to a new room where the teachers pay more attention to the kids.)
Oh, this reminds me of the time the daycare told me my son had hit another baby - unusual for him - and I was like, “did you give him a snack??” And they were shocked (and highly entertained, thank goodness) that a 10mo would get hangry, and started making sure he had more snacks.
Wait they narced on your TEN MONTH OLD???
Lololol I know! It was more of a, “He’s never done this before, what’s the deal?” kind of thing. Regardless, how much could be alleviated by timely application of snacks? For everyone!
hear hear. Never let a child get hungry ever basically. "Ruining appetites" is a scam!
yes AND I'm obviously not pro-biting, but when they're so small, they just don't have a lot of other resources for managing problems! (both of my kids were occasional biters and basically outgrew it--and I was often a little relieved when a report came home that they'd been the bite-ee.)
with the story that I told, I was like, okay, this is a pattern, what are you doing proactively to keep it from repeating, and the answer was a shrug. we also had a lot of talks about how the one who hits second is always going to get caught--even if you're not the one who started it, the response is going to be what gets an adult's attention!
We all know you and your pro-biting agenda Nancy! ;)
once again my reputation precedes me ;)
Our daycare called as my kid was the bite-ee the other day, and he’s only a toddler, but he did snatch the biters toy first. I’m not pro-biting, but do I think the biter is a monster? Nope! Do i think any kind of physical punishment from adults is justified? Nope! Do i think my kid might have learned something useful from another kid reacting to his behaviour? Probably!
Like, unless it broke the skin or you have reason to think my kid has some sort of developmental issue that needs to be checked out (pediatrician says no, this is an entirely normal toddler)...this is kind of a "you" problem to deal with, daycare?
This is WELL within the realm of normal toddler behavior, and you're just going to have to figure out how to lessen the opportunities and triggers for biting.
If she's going on four and still biting people regularly, then I'm going to be concerned, but she won't even be two til June.
I think this is important to remember! Every after-care program I have worked in or witnessed (as a teacher) is understaffed by people who make $13/ hour, work 2-3 other jobs, and have little to no formal training in child development. They can be doing the best with the tools they have and that can also not be enough for some, or many, children.
This gave me all the feels. My son was recently diagnosed with epilepsy and the institutional response has been... shocking.
This idea that we can manage, manipulate and control tiny people into being what society deems appropriate... it feels really dangerous to me.
I wish ‘school’ wasn’t the only option of additional childcare available to our growing children. School as we understand it. Turning kids into cogs in an educational machine, building them for compliance and competency... designed to serve the most beings as efficiently as possible. Act right or gtfo?! Who says what is right?! Harming others is not right, but when we’re talking about 6 year olds... C’Mon?!?
It’s dehumanizing. It’s failing our communities on many levels. Moms are so busy doing EVERYTHING we’ve not gotten in there and reformed the way we ‘train’ our young for generations.
I know. And there is so much guilt on us and to spill on the other kids. I can only laugh now at my attempts to tell my son when he was in kindergarten that he is wasting his classmates' time when he acts up. Like kindergarteners' time is so valuable. I try really hard not to think about how depressing it was that during COVID instead of him sitting on the floor rolling around with his friends he had to sit at a desk, keep his mask on, not touch anyone or else it's instant death.
Wishing you well Devin. I have a friend whose daughter got an epilepsy diagnosis a few years ago and they are all doing well now but it was very emotional and scary to get it all tested and figure out the medication and then the effects from the medication, etc.
I feel this! This is where my head goes. I wish there were more options. When one of the Witches in the pieces said, "Surrender. This is the situation. It’s not optimal," I felt that in my bones.
Oof. I feel this so much. And it is SO HARD to find those magical “alternative” programs with a low student teacher ratio and neurodivergence tolerance but still enough learning that your bright, but special needs kid won’t get bored and check out. Even when you are SO PRIVILEGED and can afford to pay more than half the country makes in a year just to send your kid to Kindergarten. If I can’t handle dealing with this shit, it is literally ducking impossible for most parents. I spend equal time angry at the system on my kid’s behalf and angrier at the system on behalf of all the other kids who are being more screwed.
And don’t get me started on how we’ve decided primary school is “work” rather than a place to learn to be humans and make friends and practice manners and eh if there’s time learn the names of the states or some basic arithmetic or whatever. And we’re STILL making this choice when we have a cohort of kids who were trapped inside for a year or more. The curriculum just makes it so hard for even NT kids without any good reason. The world will not end if Timmy doesn’t get to fractions until middle school. The world might end if Timmy never figures out how to play tag.
this is so true kate! aaaaaand sometimes a kid can actually do well in a more "typical" setting, it just comes down to all of these details like teacher style, school beliefs about inclusion, etc. my son's low-performing, normal-sauce public school does a GREAT job with NT kids, but they dont advertise it, it's kind of just in the air. hard to know where those places are as a parent but it can happen....
Here here!
I really needed this thread, so thank you Claire and OP. My 6yo has been suspended twice from before and after care for hitting, and we were pushed out of our beloved daycare over my ND 4yo. He was excluded 5 times for biting so hard he broke skin. 3 of those were in 1 week, with the 3rd culminating in him looking the new director in the eye and saying “If I bite my friends hard enough I get to go home.” Congratulations, that’s what you taught my kid. My kid who wants nothing more than to stay home because he believes I spend my days in my PJs on the couch watching TV and eating cereal. (In fairness, they’re yoga pants in my makeshift office-but there is legitimate careering going on all day.). I desperately wanted to tell the director “Honey, YOU don’t like me. My kid would like nothing better than to spend the day on the couch with me. So please stop escalating matters until he gets his wish or he will never make it through another day!” But I bit my tongue because we did not want to be kicked out. I did repeatedly ask them for guidance on how to reinforce the matter at home because “at 3, it’s not appropriate to punish a child for hours at a time, but once the immediate consequences are over, he really enjoys being home.” That was met with a “not my problem” stare. The school exclusions at this age read to me as punishment for the parents. They started treating me like I ended drop off in the morning by stomping on my kid’s foot and telling him to choose his victim wisely. The vibe was “Will you please DO something about your child?!” As though I was withholding some magical fix for shits and giggles. I hated to give them the satisfaction of pushing us out to make way for an “easier” kid, but my kid was absolutely internalizing the “I’m bad” message. We got enormously lucky that we found a daycare where the 4 year old room teacher had a background with sensory processing ND kids (mine is a seeker) and the school was new enough to have small class sizes. Someone with the soft skill set of understanding co-regulation and spotting triggers early to de-escalate was magical. But the second she is out sick, we get the call to come collect him. Every professional who has seen him has said he really needs a small class size to thrive, but where is this mythical 10-15 kid kindergarten class? We are enormously lucky that we are already qualified for an IEP for next year, but I’m not entirely certain how that will work. I don’t think he needs to be in a separate classroom, but I also think there will be incidents in a class with 20 kids (State max and the standard around here) of which he will be the youngest. I’d red shirt him, but without our unicorn teacher, I just know it will be another year of constant calls to collect him. I feel like we’ve made all this diagnostic progress, but the schools have not caught up with what to actually DO with these kids, and daycare is even less equipped and with none of the legal protections. Ok. Deep breath. That has been swirling in my brain for a year. Thank you for the forum to let that out.
Hi Shannon. I love you for this: "stomping on my kid’s foot and telling him to choose his victim wisely." I know very well the "Please explain to Timmy that we don't XYZ in class" as if you are just not explaining it right. And it takes so much time to figure this out all over and over again, it's such a bummer to realize our kids are the lucky ones in that their parents have the time and resources to spend trying to figure this out and help their kids. Because it doesn't feel 'lucky'!
Sending you and your kid a hug.
this is such an important topic! maybe i missed it but just want parents to know that when your kid does have an IEP, there are tons of legal hoops the school has to go through if they decided they want to suspend or expel your kid. basically, if the behavior is related to your child's disability (which you could def make a case for here), they arent allowed to suspend or expel. it's very protective. one more reason to make it legal :)
Oh goodness - I have my own stories with ADHD kid and school but what this is mostly reminding me of is my friend who has to pick her 3yo up from daycare multiple times a week because they have an enforced “quiet time” for TWO HOURS and basically anyone who isn’t napping has to play SILENTLY for TWO HOURS. And because my friend’s child is unable to do this they send her home. This blows my mind. My own preschooler’s daycare thankfully has a separate nap room and non-napping kids can play quietly in the next room but it’s an old house so for the half dozen kids who CAN’T just “play quietly” they are taken outside to yell and run free! Why do we expect so much of kids - and such little kids, 3? 5? 6? 10? We need to expect more of adults. Are these educators, care providers, administrators not trained?? Are there no alternatives to punitive carceral punishments that only make things worse!?! I’m obviously triggered so will leave things there. I’m just REALLY over school and flailing around for reasons not to send my second kid - but also I can’t homeschool soooo…
My daughter started kindergarten on the young side of her year, and really struggled for probably the first half of last year with focus in class. One day I got a message from her teacher that she had been found in the bathroom with another girl playing during class time, and the word ‘inappropriate’ was used. Apparently it wasn’t that they had been showing each other private parts or anything, just that she disrupted class as another kid had to be sent to find her. Her teacher then decided to tell me she was concerned that she was using toilet breaks as an excuse when she didn’t want to do ‘hard’ work (I would have liked to know that earlier!) I spoke to my daughter with the angle of ‘its not safe if the teacher doesn’t know where you are, and its important to be in class to learn’ but secretly my huband and I were just like, eh, what grown up hasn’t hid in the bathroom on a really bad day at work?
Speaking as the parent of 2 young adults, I just want to say how much I appreciate the statement about the connection between school success and adult success. I wish I had heard that much earlier, too! I’d add one thing: “adult success” is vast and varied. For some, it looks like a traditional career and relationship path on a relatively traditional timeline. But for others, it looks very different. Furthermore, every successful adult has periods of difficulty, uncertainty, and struggle. I am learning to relax a bit about the specifics for my kids, and for myself.
Yes, I think about this a lot. What "success" means and how it can't protect you from disaster or from depression and what one might sacrifice along the way in order to make way for 'success.' Thank you!
This was like a godsend today. Last night I got the most passive-aggressive letter sent home from my five year old's pre-K teacher and I was flipping out. It's like a balm to read all this. My therapist has told me a couple of times that thing that Katie Malinski said. I hope it's true! Because some of the other adults in his life are getting MAJOR SIDE-EYE FROM ME. s
Unfortunately, regular school in general is not the best place for neurodivergent kids.
To all those people who said that their SCHOOL based evaluation deemed their kids as "fine", get an independent second opinion. We went through the school district and was denied services because my kid passed all the test. An independent neuropsychology evaluation told us otherwise.
We are lucky, the school that my kid is in has been overall a good fit. The teachers so far have taken her issues seriously (it also helped that they all had special ed training.) Now that she is getting older, we are reevaluating school placement and looking at alternative programs. As of now we are taking a wait and see approach now that middle school is on the horizon and classes are longer in self-contained. Unfortunately, this is all private school, but hell, we don't need to go on vacation anyways.
School districts are working to be more inclusive, but there is no money for it, which make everything worse for everyone. Nevertheless, advocate, advocate, advocate. It's exhausting, but the only way that people will pay attention.