Well, this scared the shit out of me, Claire. Thank you? (But also, thank you. My incredibly easygoing, sweet, chill 9yo is changing before our eyes -- she has taken to screaming at us almost daily and then clinging to me 24/7 -- and when my husband asked me, the night before last, "What the actual fuck?" all I could say was, "I think she's becoming a tween now.") I really need to hear things like "it's not because you didn't teach them hard enough" and "it’s not because you didn’t remind them enough that they are too good for this shit." I feel like I need to write that somewhere fairly permanent, so I don't forget.
Ha! I don't mean to bring the doom and gloom. It just really is remarkable to be like "Please don't be jerks" and they all go run up to volunteer at the jerk factory.
Mine started her period during quarantine, at just-turned-11, while we were cleaning out my mother's house after she was incapacitated by a stroke. A little too sunrise, sunset for my taste.
I had a totally different middle school experience, and so has my 14 year old enby. I was bullied really badly in 5th grade so by the time I got to middle school I had no fucks left to give about what other kids thought. I learned, I had semi-stable friend groups, I volunteered with the Mondale-Ferarro campaign. I did music and theater and art. It was actually way better than high school, which I left early for college because between the Heathers culture and the rape culture it was freaking awful. I think my elementary experience was part of what made it different for me.
My kid is queer, out, and has a great group of supportive mostly queer friends, and has some teachers they love and is in advanced theater which is like a pile of sweet hyperactive puppies. I did all their makeup in one crazed afternoon and it was a blast. I didn't send my kid into middle school with the expectation that it would suck because my experience was so non-normative. But they also have a really different landscape. They're a quarantine kid - half of 4th and all of 5th was online. It gave them a chance to develop as an individual without so much gender and behavior policing. They started with a stronger sense of self in middle school than I did. They also do better with the multi-class format than the one teacher format, by far.
It has not been without challenges. The US, my state in particular, does not give a flying fuck about neurodivergent kids, so it often comes down to either individual teachers or me waving my PhD in the face of the district and threatening legal action. Some teachers suck and nobody does anything about it. There's no real support for ADHD and Dyslexic kids beyond accommodations, and the teachers ignore them half the time. My kid has struggled with anxiety and depression over friends being in bad home situations, the world being generally on fire, loss and grief, and struggling with executive function as we were slow to get the ADHD diagnosis (mom guilt ACTIVATE!).
I guess I see a lot of the problems with middle school as systemic as much as social. Yes, my kid can be an asshole on a regular basis due to hormones, neural remodeling, sensory overload, or just general teen-ness. But I think the challenge for us as parents is to really step back and let them lead as much as is safe and sane. Teens are not overgrown kids and they are not immature adults. They are in a distinct developmental stage, the hallmarks of which include a major remodel of the brain (which is mostly responsible for weird behavior, not hormones), a growing awareness of impending adulthood, and a very developmentally health and necessary (and painful for parents) switch of focus from parents to peers. They are risk-prone for important developmental reasons which is a bitch to grapple with. The rules and limitations of childhood WILL NOT WORK and need to be adjusted on an ongoing basis. This includes screen time and socials, bedtimes, food rules (if you do those - I don't), and a reassessment of what is considered general teen-ness and what is genuine assholeness that needs to be addressed.
All this to say, your kid's middle school experience is not set in stone. Magnet schools can be great (if your'e in the US) and provide kids with a peer group that is less likely to descend like a pack of rabid hyenas. Talk to other parents and educators in your district and get the vibe. Teenagers are freaking awesome--it's on us to get past the incredible butthurt that comes with not being as needed, respected, or loved on as we are used to by our younger kids. The feelings are real, but they are not the teen's fault. It's a feature, not a bug. /Ted Talk
Thank you for that. I had the added complication of realizing I didn't recognize it because THEY TOTALLY GOT IT FROM ME. Which is not uncommon, but doh. Also thank you for tolerating my insanely long comment. I'm on steroids for asthma and I have to say everything all at once.
I love the advice for teachers! I've been teaching middle school for 13 years. I always tell my students there has *never* been a more challenging time to be a teenager.
I will say that now that I have been in the game awhile, I absolutely LOVE when my former students return to me as kind, respectful, appreciative young adults. This usually happens around graduation season and they almost always apologize for being little shits in middle school. It's so rewarding. Better than any candle, mug, or gift card!!!!!
"I wish you could include some sort of scale indicating whether the incident in question is among the worst you’ve ever seen or basically some version of something that happens every year." God I wish we could get this info for all ages. Even when my kid was two. "He has trouble sitting at a table for a long enough time to do his work." He's two??? Or when a four-year-old hits another kid. Is this a normal hiccup or a baby psychopath??!?
Middle school wasn’t too bad for my eldest. I have more “how the f do you and your friends talk to each other?” moments for him now that he’s finishing high school. My younger kid had a rockier middle school, but she/they are in high school now and it’s like a switch flipped.
Two things that helped: not getting them phones until the very end of 7th grade and, for the younger one, therapy. My kids whined that they were left out of stuff without a phone, but I sincerely believe they were left out of more negative things than than positive ones by not being able to participate in that sphere during 6th and 7th. They got to take their phones to school during the last few days of 7th grade so they could get numbers from friends to chat over the summer.
My son says that he still hears about online drama at school even if he doesn't witness it himself (he's not as online as some of his pals). I'm like see! Best of all worlds. You don't have FOMO and you can also sleep at night without being obsessed you missed something or you made someone mad.
I don't usually comment, but I just wanted to thank you for this. I'm going through this with my son (6th grade) and I honestly didn't get that it's normal for 11-year-olds to suddenly become total assholes. He just transformed from my sweet little baby boy into a surly, unpleasant jerk who doesn't want to do ANYTHING but play video games. It's been a tough transition for me! Glad to know it's normal (even if it's really rough). I have a 16-year-old daughter, so you'd think I would've been prepared, but she was in middle school at the beginning of the pandemic, so all bets were off.
Ugh it's so rough, and it doesn't help when your phone is like "remember when they were this adorable bathtub baby??"
If it makes you feel better I called my 11 year old a dickhead at the dinner table a few weeks ago. His little brother made and error during prayer and he just had to point it out, despite giving zero actual shits about it prayer-wise.
I'm here on the other side of boy puberty to say that as much as he was a raging asshole for a good 18 months, he suddenly switched out of it in the span of two weeks the summer after 7th grade. He was still a pre/teen with a rude tude at times, but the 0-60 rage and utter disgust with our very breathing ceased and he became a semi-pleasant family member again. There is hope!!
Literally just last night I had to tell my 6th grade daughter "nothing, nothing, absolutely nothing good has ever come from trying to sort out conflict via group text"
the written word and documentation of everything is so easily weaponized. I could NEVER be a tween today.
I was just thinking about my own middle school experience last night! I was the asshole kid who ditched her BFF -- who was kind of a drip, tbh, but had been my friend when no one else was interested -- the second the popular girls said jump. And then the popular girls just... stayed my friends? Given those same circumstances today, I honestly think I would make the same decision *but* enact it much more kindly. But I don't think those skills exist in 6th grade? IDK. I feel like I am "supposed" to totally regret this and I just... don't?
I think my own kiddo, now 17, would say 7th grade was the worst year of school for her. She was sexually harassed by a couple of boys, who said incredibly vile things that, best case scenario, they heard in p0rn or from older kids and didn't understand. Her school fumbled the situation badly, and we ended up switching schools the next year.
I'm so sorry that happened to your daughter and bravo for getting her out of there. One thing I recall from 7th grade is feeling totally trapped in the present circumstances. You're a still a child with only a modicum of independence and you still have to go to school and be in the same corral with all the jerks day after day and the teachers and assignments...and unless your parents can switch you out to a better situation (as you did), there's another year before high school and a potential change of scene and characters.
I think the most horrific part of middle school bullying was finding out that the school WAS telling the parents and the parents literally said "when they are at (religious school program) they are your problem, not mine". I was told this by the administrator, who left after his first year, obviously. The teacher quit, too. A group of parents looked into an alternative tutoring program that didn't end up coming to fruition. Just an out and out deliberate failure by a group of parents determined to let their daughters disrupt, and a school that refused to kick them out. I've never forgotten it, and unfortunately my child hasn't either.
Ooof that is disturbing. I heard about a parent who got her kid out of a big group punishment (museum outing + paper) for an out-of-school offense b/c she said her 6th grade son wasn't a part of the offending group and she believed him.
I get that it might be hard work to do a paper but a museum outing as punishment says iffy things to me about what that school considers disciplinary. I had to read that a couple of times because I thought the punishment was being kept AWAY from the group going to the museum.
"Group punishment" is going to a MUSEUM and then writing a paper on it? I wish! (Group punishment is a bad idea as I recall involving a bunch of sullen students sitting quietly and pouting through study hall but I - regress.)
Thanks for reminding me ;) there was also a group punishment in this group and the parents just didn't send their kids to religious school that week so they didn't have to perform the teeny bit of community service. Truly, the worst year ever!
normally I'd agree with you but in this case it was a trip to a Holocaust museum and an accompanying paper so in that case getting out of it had a different flavor.
My 8-year-old had a free dress day on a Wednesday at her school a few weeks ago (they wear uniforms). She chose a pink shirt and jeans. By chance, two of the other girls in her class chose to wear pink shirts and jeans. One of the other girls decided that the three of them were now the "Mean Girls" and were going to be snotty all day. When questioned about it, she said "they were pretending to be the cool kids from a movie and they all wear pink on Wednesdays."
I was...WTF. You girls are in second grade. Whose parents let their second grader watch "Mean Girls"? Second-graders aren't going to get the jokes, and they obviously missed that the Plastics are the villains.
There's this weird peddling of high school girl culture to little girls that I've never understood. My kid was way into My Little Pony in the 2010s (one of the best kids shows ever do not @ me) but I was appalled by the alternate reality one where they're high school human girls with identical bodies. WTF.
This is a total aside, but I just yesterday heard an interview with Tina Fey where she pointed out that everyone in Mean Girls has a turn at being the villain, just none of them are the villain in their own story.
very true! I think this whenever people (often adolescent boys of any age) refer to people as NPCs as if they are not an NPC in everyone else's world. Get over yourself. PS I would love to be an actual NPC, sounds like it would be so simple.
Even though they’ll look “grown up” and act grown up and want to be treated as grown-ups alarmingly quickly, remind yourself often that they’re still kids with kid needs. They’ll chafe and rage at being treated like a child but keeping in mind that they’re still kids is always a solid foundation.
Enthusiastically second the recommendation of therapy. Be prepared that as they mature they may not feel comfortable discussing sex stuff with that therapist and ask for a new one.
Around 15 they turn into real people who are enjoyable to spend time with, and it’s all uphill from there.
I profoundly respect middle school teachers. I can’t imagine going to work every day and being reminded of such a hard time in my own life. They (you!!! if you teach middle school) are doing gods’ work.
Can someone explain why using the word fuck typed out registers in a comparison to the other social problems mentioned- sending a cruel text, intentionally excluding someone from a group for no reason. There is cruelty and exclusion which are major concerns with clear meaning involved, and victims, and there is use of a word of extremely unstable meaning. Kids using slang they don’t understand the literal meaning of in order to express themselves more fully or appear more mature is a natural part of growing up finding self expression and socializing. Now if it were a slur…or something with a stable meaning and a targeted victimized group involved I would completely see the cause for concern. The word fuck is not in itself aggressive violent or cruel even when uttered by kids. It would completely depend on the context. It’s not even comparable to the other social problems of pre teens mentioned all of which imply victims on the receiving end of cruel behavior.
if they shouted it into the sky I wouldn't care. I just don't want to know about it! I just grew up in a kids-don't-swear-in-front-of-adults family and it was ingrained in me.
some of these kids *are* using slurs too sadly. I'm not saying these terms are the same or there is a guarantee that if your kid says fuck they say other things. But the language stuff is very bracing for first time prudes like me.
I grew up in that kind of household too and I often fantasized about what could have been if my parents had encouraged me to express myself fully at home in their presence using all the tools humans have available including our language. I think it could’ve been great for me to know that words are ok and emotion is ok.
I get that it might be jarring but i think it’s a positive thing if your kids are getting more facility with language and able to express themselves. Slurs are completely different
I showed my kid Eddie Izzard's dressed to kill the other week and forgot how much casual 'For Fucks sake!' is in it. My husband knows I'm the swear-ier one but even he was like, we cannot let the 11yr old say 'oh for fucks sake!' constantly, please rein in it 😂🤦♀️
My girls (ages 8 and 2) have both dropped f-bombs on a number of occasions, as well as other casual profanity. It's the universal adjective.
I'm blaming their father (he's a lawyer and they are worse than sailors when it comes to profanity.) I put that in the category of "watch your language" and "don't repeat that at school." Thus far, we haven't haven't had big issues with that.
I hate to say it (but ha ha you KNOW I love to say it): Another vote for waiting to get kids phones! My oldest kid is in 7th and has never once had to deal with a gnarly text! (And lol he complains about not getting the slang but uses his ignorance as a flex!) I also think having his elementary school go through 6th was a lifesaver. There was drama last year, but the kids were able to deal with it with their single teacher, in a more comforting environment. I know my daughter will likely have it worse/more complicated because she is a girl. Plus, she is 8 and anxious and already tells me to go fuck myself regularly (she's in therapy already...)
my 8 year old son said "I hate you" more times to me in the last few weeks than I did to my mom in my entire life so I don't even know why I'm bothering with the 6th grader when it's the 3rd grader who I need to watch out for.
My oldest once said, "I hate you and I'm going to murder you in your sleep," and now even my four year old says that to me when he's upset. CLEARLY I FAILED AND I GIVE UP!
Grades 6-8 were horrid for me (and sometimes I was also horrid) and hindsight being 20/20 I wish I’d not been raised at the altar of people-pleasing. It might have been easier? I always envied kids who seemed to be able to shrug things off or better yet call out mean-girl shit.
It’s very true that former middle school boys have a higher tolerance for nonsense. Sometimes the stories my husband tells me or the way he and his brother (they are both over 40) act together is like - were you raised by bears??!
same. My husband is a pretty sensitive guy, not a bro by any means, and he keeps saying the stuff I find horrifying is in fact typical. I still have a hard time believing it. Again it makes me nervous b/c you're like how many clicks are we away from "locker room culture"??
This is honestly why I felt like I was hit by a truck when I found out my muppet was a boy or (at least presumptively) a boy. Absolute best case scenario, you avoid the p0rn and the misogyny and the bullying, and you STILL have a flock of 12 year olds having a farting competition.
Yes! I mean, I could have had a five-year-old girl whose favorite word is "poopyhead" and who loves Dog Man and who just last week in aftercare built a giant larger-than-life paper sculpture of underpants (complete with careful construction of the flap structure that boys' briefs have in front, and a little tiny alien head sprouting out of the waistband so it could pretend-talk, and random balls and tassels glued on for decoration)... but it seems much more likely to happen with a boy.
Well, this scared the shit out of me, Claire. Thank you? (But also, thank you. My incredibly easygoing, sweet, chill 9yo is changing before our eyes -- she has taken to screaming at us almost daily and then clinging to me 24/7 -- and when my husband asked me, the night before last, "What the actual fuck?" all I could say was, "I think she's becoming a tween now.") I really need to hear things like "it's not because you didn't teach them hard enough" and "it’s not because you didn’t remind them enough that they are too good for this shit." I feel like I need to write that somewhere fairly permanent, so I don't forget.
Ha! I don't mean to bring the doom and gloom. It just really is remarkable to be like "Please don't be jerks" and they all go run up to volunteer at the jerk factory.
Nope, I appreciate the honesty.
The early years of puberty are A LOT. My kid hit it at 9 and 11 was a horror show.
Also your kid starting their period during quarantine is A LOT.
Imagine a classroom of sixth grade girls with their cycles all synced up. There is not enough coffee for those few days.
Nooooooo
‼️
Mine started her period during quarantine, at just-turned-11, while we were cleaning out my mother's house after she was incapacitated by a stroke. A little too sunrise, sunset for my taste.
Legit preparing for this.
I had a totally different middle school experience, and so has my 14 year old enby. I was bullied really badly in 5th grade so by the time I got to middle school I had no fucks left to give about what other kids thought. I learned, I had semi-stable friend groups, I volunteered with the Mondale-Ferarro campaign. I did music and theater and art. It was actually way better than high school, which I left early for college because between the Heathers culture and the rape culture it was freaking awful. I think my elementary experience was part of what made it different for me.
My kid is queer, out, and has a great group of supportive mostly queer friends, and has some teachers they love and is in advanced theater which is like a pile of sweet hyperactive puppies. I did all their makeup in one crazed afternoon and it was a blast. I didn't send my kid into middle school with the expectation that it would suck because my experience was so non-normative. But they also have a really different landscape. They're a quarantine kid - half of 4th and all of 5th was online. It gave them a chance to develop as an individual without so much gender and behavior policing. They started with a stronger sense of self in middle school than I did. They also do better with the multi-class format than the one teacher format, by far.
It has not been without challenges. The US, my state in particular, does not give a flying fuck about neurodivergent kids, so it often comes down to either individual teachers or me waving my PhD in the face of the district and threatening legal action. Some teachers suck and nobody does anything about it. There's no real support for ADHD and Dyslexic kids beyond accommodations, and the teachers ignore them half the time. My kid has struggled with anxiety and depression over friends being in bad home situations, the world being generally on fire, loss and grief, and struggling with executive function as we were slow to get the ADHD diagnosis (mom guilt ACTIVATE!).
I guess I see a lot of the problems with middle school as systemic as much as social. Yes, my kid can be an asshole on a regular basis due to hormones, neural remodeling, sensory overload, or just general teen-ness. But I think the challenge for us as parents is to really step back and let them lead as much as is safe and sane. Teens are not overgrown kids and they are not immature adults. They are in a distinct developmental stage, the hallmarks of which include a major remodel of the brain (which is mostly responsible for weird behavior, not hormones), a growing awareness of impending adulthood, and a very developmentally health and necessary (and painful for parents) switch of focus from parents to peers. They are risk-prone for important developmental reasons which is a bitch to grapple with. The rules and limitations of childhood WILL NOT WORK and need to be adjusted on an ongoing basis. This includes screen time and socials, bedtimes, food rules (if you do those - I don't), and a reassessment of what is considered general teen-ness and what is genuine assholeness that needs to be addressed.
All this to say, your kid's middle school experience is not set in stone. Magnet schools can be great (if your'e in the US) and provide kids with a peer group that is less likely to descend like a pack of rabid hyenas. Talk to other parents and educators in your district and get the vibe. Teenagers are freaking awesome--it's on us to get past the incredible butthurt that comes with not being as needed, respected, or loved on as we are used to by our younger kids. The feelings are real, but they are not the teen's fault. It's a feature, not a bug. /Ted Talk
A very quick tiny response is do not feel guilty about that late diagnosis!! Nobody knows what they don't know.
Thank you for that. I had the added complication of realizing I didn't recognize it because THEY TOTALLY GOT IT FROM ME. Which is not uncommon, but doh. Also thank you for tolerating my insanely long comment. I'm on steroids for asthma and I have to say everything all at once.
let it out, it's free. Also same. IDK where my son gets his screen addiction. says the woman who reads the news while she goes up the stairs.
"I had no fucks left to give about what other kids thought.... I volunteered with the Mondale-Ferarro campaign." has me howling!
That is a class, smooched into a comment! Excellent.
I blame the asthma steroids 🤪
No, I meant it in the best way. I think you could write a book that would be sooo helpful!
I love the advice for teachers! I've been teaching middle school for 13 years. I always tell my students there has *never* been a more challenging time to be a teenager.
I will say that now that I have been in the game awhile, I absolutely LOVE when my former students return to me as kind, respectful, appreciative young adults. This usually happens around graduation season and they almost always apologize for being little shits in middle school. It's so rewarding. Better than any candle, mug, or gift card!!!!!
it really heartened me to hear from young adults a few weeks ago re: screen time--they got through those years and got wisdom/perspective from it.
"I wish you could include some sort of scale indicating whether the incident in question is among the worst you’ve ever seen or basically some version of something that happens every year." God I wish we could get this info for all ages. Even when my kid was two. "He has trouble sitting at a table for a long enough time to do his work." He's two??? Or when a four-year-old hits another kid. Is this a normal hiccup or a baby psychopath??!?
I'm sorry his WORK? Were they cranking out widgets at the daycare factory? That's nuts!
Oh lol it’s Montessori language, he was probably arranging flowers or pouring water from a pitcher into a cup 😂
LOL makes more sense. Every time I hear about kids "working" I flip to Simpsons "This wallets have to be on the streets of Hong Kong by Friday!"
Haha we were told the same about our 2 y/o and asked that question: “is it like a problem-problem or is it just normal behavior for a 2 year old???”.
Middle school wasn’t too bad for my eldest. I have more “how the f do you and your friends talk to each other?” moments for him now that he’s finishing high school. My younger kid had a rockier middle school, but she/they are in high school now and it’s like a switch flipped.
Two things that helped: not getting them phones until the very end of 7th grade and, for the younger one, therapy. My kids whined that they were left out of stuff without a phone, but I sincerely believe they were left out of more negative things than than positive ones by not being able to participate in that sphere during 6th and 7th. They got to take their phones to school during the last few days of 7th grade so they could get numbers from friends to chat over the summer.
My son says that he still hears about online drama at school even if he doesn't witness it himself (he's not as online as some of his pals). I'm like see! Best of all worlds. You don't have FOMO and you can also sleep at night without being obsessed you missed something or you made someone mad.
Saying "Are you venting, or do you want me to help you find a solution?" works for spouses and children. Sometimes I even remember to say it!
I need to use this more!
I don't usually comment, but I just wanted to thank you for this. I'm going through this with my son (6th grade) and I honestly didn't get that it's normal for 11-year-olds to suddenly become total assholes. He just transformed from my sweet little baby boy into a surly, unpleasant jerk who doesn't want to do ANYTHING but play video games. It's been a tough transition for me! Glad to know it's normal (even if it's really rough). I have a 16-year-old daughter, so you'd think I would've been prepared, but she was in middle school at the beginning of the pandemic, so all bets were off.
Ugh it's so rough, and it doesn't help when your phone is like "remember when they were this adorable bathtub baby??"
If it makes you feel better I called my 11 year old a dickhead at the dinner table a few weeks ago. His little brother made and error during prayer and he just had to point it out, despite giving zero actual shits about it prayer-wise.
I'm here on the other side of boy puberty to say that as much as he was a raging asshole for a good 18 months, he suddenly switched out of it in the span of two weeks the summer after 7th grade. He was still a pre/teen with a rude tude at times, but the 0-60 rage and utter disgust with our very breathing ceased and he became a semi-pleasant family member again. There is hope!!
that gives me hope!
Literally just last night I had to tell my 6th grade daughter "nothing, nothing, absolutely nothing good has ever come from trying to sort out conflict via group text"
the written word and documentation of everything is so easily weaponized. I could NEVER be a tween today.
I try to remind my son that it is NOT an act of kindness to tell someone else if others are saying mean things about them.
I was just thinking about my own middle school experience last night! I was the asshole kid who ditched her BFF -- who was kind of a drip, tbh, but had been my friend when no one else was interested -- the second the popular girls said jump. And then the popular girls just... stayed my friends? Given those same circumstances today, I honestly think I would make the same decision *but* enact it much more kindly. But I don't think those skills exist in 6th grade? IDK. I feel like I am "supposed" to totally regret this and I just... don't?
I think my own kiddo, now 17, would say 7th grade was the worst year of school for her. She was sexually harassed by a couple of boys, who said incredibly vile things that, best case scenario, they heard in p0rn or from older kids and didn't understand. Her school fumbled the situation badly, and we ended up switching schools the next year.
that is terrible, I'm so sorry your school fumbled that so badly.
I'm so sorry that happened to your daughter and bravo for getting her out of there. One thing I recall from 7th grade is feeling totally trapped in the present circumstances. You're a still a child with only a modicum of independence and you still have to go to school and be in the same corral with all the jerks day after day and the teachers and assignments...and unless your parents can switch you out to a better situation (as you did), there's another year before high school and a potential change of scene and characters.
I think the most horrific part of middle school bullying was finding out that the school WAS telling the parents and the parents literally said "when they are at (religious school program) they are your problem, not mine". I was told this by the administrator, who left after his first year, obviously. The teacher quit, too. A group of parents looked into an alternative tutoring program that didn't end up coming to fruition. Just an out and out deliberate failure by a group of parents determined to let their daughters disrupt, and a school that refused to kick them out. I've never forgotten it, and unfortunately my child hasn't either.
Ooof that is disturbing. I heard about a parent who got her kid out of a big group punishment (museum outing + paper) for an out-of-school offense b/c she said her 6th grade son wasn't a part of the offending group and she believed him.
I get that it might be hard work to do a paper but a museum outing as punishment says iffy things to me about what that school considers disciplinary. I had to read that a couple of times because I thought the punishment was being kept AWAY from the group going to the museum.
"Group punishment" is going to a MUSEUM and then writing a paper on it? I wish! (Group punishment is a bad idea as I recall involving a bunch of sullen students sitting quietly and pouting through study hall but I - regress.)
Thanks for reminding me ;) there was also a group punishment in this group and the parents just didn't send their kids to religious school that week so they didn't have to perform the teeny bit of community service. Truly, the worst year ever!
Group punishment is the stupidest, laziest discipline there is. It literally does the opposite of what it claims.
normally I'd agree with you but in this case it was a trip to a Holocaust museum and an accompanying paper so in that case getting out of it had a different flavor.
OK WELL that changes things ...
Yipes!
And they let their kid get out of it?? I'd be PISSED about that too.
hahah ok this is very important context Claire LOL
My 8-year-old had a free dress day on a Wednesday at her school a few weeks ago (they wear uniforms). She chose a pink shirt and jeans. By chance, two of the other girls in her class chose to wear pink shirts and jeans. One of the other girls decided that the three of them were now the "Mean Girls" and were going to be snotty all day. When questioned about it, she said "they were pretending to be the cool kids from a movie and they all wear pink on Wednesdays."
I was...WTF. You girls are in second grade. Whose parents let their second grader watch "Mean Girls"? Second-graders aren't going to get the jokes, and they obviously missed that the Plastics are the villains.
ha I was just pondering the moment my friends and I used to play She-Ra and we realized that Catra was actually a much better character to be.
There's this weird peddling of high school girl culture to little girls that I've never understood. My kid was way into My Little Pony in the 2010s (one of the best kids shows ever do not @ me) but I was appalled by the alternate reality one where they're high school human girls with identical bodies. WTF.
Oh I (and my girls) LOVE "My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic" but the Equestria Girls was just weird as hell.
This is a total aside, but I just yesterday heard an interview with Tina Fey where she pointed out that everyone in Mean Girls has a turn at being the villain, just none of them are the villain in their own story.
very true! I think this whenever people (often adolescent boys of any age) refer to people as NPCs as if they are not an NPC in everyone else's world. Get over yourself. PS I would love to be an actual NPC, sounds like it would be so simple.
Very true!
I hate that movie so much, lol.
I love it and found it hilarious, but it is NOT a movie for kids.
Even though they’ll look “grown up” and act grown up and want to be treated as grown-ups alarmingly quickly, remind yourself often that they’re still kids with kid needs. They’ll chafe and rage at being treated like a child but keeping in mind that they’re still kids is always a solid foundation.
Enthusiastically second the recommendation of therapy. Be prepared that as they mature they may not feel comfortable discussing sex stuff with that therapist and ask for a new one.
Around 15 they turn into real people who are enjoyable to spend time with, and it’s all uphill from there.
I profoundly respect middle school teachers. I can’t imagine going to work every day and being reminded of such a hard time in my own life. They (you!!! if you teach middle school) are doing gods’ work.
Can someone explain why using the word fuck typed out registers in a comparison to the other social problems mentioned- sending a cruel text, intentionally excluding someone from a group for no reason. There is cruelty and exclusion which are major concerns with clear meaning involved, and victims, and there is use of a word of extremely unstable meaning. Kids using slang they don’t understand the literal meaning of in order to express themselves more fully or appear more mature is a natural part of growing up finding self expression and socializing. Now if it were a slur…or something with a stable meaning and a targeted victimized group involved I would completely see the cause for concern. The word fuck is not in itself aggressive violent or cruel even when uttered by kids. It would completely depend on the context. It’s not even comparable to the other social problems of pre teens mentioned all of which imply victims on the receiving end of cruel behavior.
if they shouted it into the sky I wouldn't care. I just don't want to know about it! I just grew up in a kids-don't-swear-in-front-of-adults family and it was ingrained in me.
some of these kids *are* using slurs too sadly. I'm not saying these terms are the same or there is a guarantee that if your kid says fuck they say other things. But the language stuff is very bracing for first time prudes like me.
I grew up in that kind of household too and I often fantasized about what could have been if my parents had encouraged me to express myself fully at home in their presence using all the tools humans have available including our language. I think it could’ve been great for me to know that words are ok and emotion is ok.
I get that it might be jarring but i think it’s a positive thing if your kids are getting more facility with language and able to express themselves. Slurs are completely different
I showed my kid Eddie Izzard's dressed to kill the other week and forgot how much casual 'For Fucks sake!' is in it. My husband knows I'm the swear-ier one but even he was like, we cannot let the 11yr old say 'oh for fucks sake!' constantly, please rein in it 😂🤦♀️
My girls (ages 8 and 2) have both dropped f-bombs on a number of occasions, as well as other casual profanity. It's the universal adjective.
I'm blaming their father (he's a lawyer and they are worse than sailors when it comes to profanity.) I put that in the category of "watch your language" and "don't repeat that at school." Thus far, we haven't haven't had big issues with that.
I personally think that’s adorable. They’re expressive!
...until your toddler is calling another driver a "fucking idiot" in traffic...:D
HAHAHAHAHA-i love it....
I hate to say it (but ha ha you KNOW I love to say it): Another vote for waiting to get kids phones! My oldest kid is in 7th and has never once had to deal with a gnarly text! (And lol he complains about not getting the slang but uses his ignorance as a flex!) I also think having his elementary school go through 6th was a lifesaver. There was drama last year, but the kids were able to deal with it with their single teacher, in a more comforting environment. I know my daughter will likely have it worse/more complicated because she is a girl. Plus, she is 8 and anxious and already tells me to go fuck myself regularly (she's in therapy already...)
my 8 year old son said "I hate you" more times to me in the last few weeks than I did to my mom in my entire life so I don't even know why I'm bothering with the 6th grader when it's the 3rd grader who I need to watch out for.
My oldest once said, "I hate you and I'm going to murder you in your sleep," and now even my four year old says that to me when he's upset. CLEARLY I FAILED AND I GIVE UP!
well at least you'll be asleep when it happens
Oh totally. I usually say, "Please do kill me and get me out of this." Which, sorry, isn't great to say but it's a terrific zinger!!!!
I have said if you're lucky I'll die soon and you'll get a much nicer mommy.
ooh that's good
I'm crying hahahahahaha
Grades 6-8 were horrid for me (and sometimes I was also horrid) and hindsight being 20/20 I wish I’d not been raised at the altar of people-pleasing. It might have been easier? I always envied kids who seemed to be able to shrug things off or better yet call out mean-girl shit.
It’s very true that former middle school boys have a higher tolerance for nonsense. Sometimes the stories my husband tells me or the way he and his brother (they are both over 40) act together is like - were you raised by bears??!
same. My husband is a pretty sensitive guy, not a bro by any means, and he keeps saying the stuff I find horrifying is in fact typical. I still have a hard time believing it. Again it makes me nervous b/c you're like how many clicks are we away from "locker room culture"??
This is honestly why I felt like I was hit by a truck when I found out my muppet was a boy or (at least presumptively) a boy. Absolute best case scenario, you avoid the p0rn and the misogyny and the bullying, and you STILL have a flock of 12 year olds having a farting competition.
Yes! I mean, I could have had a five-year-old girl whose favorite word is "poopyhead" and who loves Dog Man and who just last week in aftercare built a giant larger-than-life paper sculpture of underpants (complete with careful construction of the flap structure that boys' briefs have in front, and a little tiny alien head sprouting out of the waistband so it could pretend-talk, and random balls and tassels glued on for decoration)... but it seems much more likely to happen with a boy.
Enby kids for the win. No corn, no performative femininity for the male gaze. Just vibes.